Introducing Dr. Leslye Kornegay

Mercy

Hello, this is Mercy Russell again with the Remarkable Relationships Show. I’m here today with my guest, Leslye Kornegay. I met Leslye when we were both students in a doctoral program at the University of Vermont. At the time, she was  Director of Custodial Services with 300 employees. Over the years we have become not only colleagues but close friends. She currently leads the housekeeping services, sanitation and recycling for all academic buildings in a large, higher educational, predominantly white institution in the Southeast of the United States.  Her responsibilities include management oversight for a workforce of 285 union and non-union staff. The department serves the campus community with pride, dignity, and professionalism by providing a clean and sustainable environment.

Dr. Kornegay was appointed the Director of University Environmental Health Services at her current institution on February 14th, 2016. She was formerly with the University of Vermont for eight and a half years as a Director of Custodial Services. Prior to her position at the University of Vermont, Leslye held positions in university facilities and organizations where she partnered with senior leadership to place the university’s internal customers first. She implemented accountability measures to ensure that departmental performance met campus expectations. She has led major institutional change initiatives while adhering to her commitment to positive and proactive leadership, transparency in communications, staff development, and strong relationships with internal and external campus stakeholders, customers, and senior leadership. She holds a Doctorate of Education from the University of Vermont, a Certificate from the Harvard Executive School of Business, a Masters Degree of Administration from Central Michigan University and a Bachelor’s Degree of Science and Business Administration from the University of Mount Olive. She is a member of the International Honor society, PI Gamma  Mu,  IEHA/ISSA, APPA & a graduate of the HERs Institute, which is a leadership Institute for women in higher education.

Today I asked Leslye to come so that we could talk about her journey, personal and spiritual through the traces of her work life. You’ll hear about her personal and spiritual growth as she took charge of her own destiny. As Leslye and I talked in preparation for this, it really stood out to me how much her story and her path, her career path have really been seminal to her all the many changes that she has made  in transformation as she has over the years on a personal level. 

Leslye

Hello, Mercy.

Mercy

Hi. I just thought that perhaps as we discussed that we might start with your early years. But before we do that, is there anything else you’d like to add in terms of the way that I’ve introduced you.

Leslye

Sure. Thank you for inviting me. I wanted to comment on the acronyms in the introduction are associations for facilities in higher education, the major ones that I’m a member of, or I serve in some capacity in their executive operations.

Mercy

I was reading your bio. I’m thinking about all the things I’ve learned about your position and what you do, and the particular nature of it. I think I want to highlight a few things.  At the University of Vermont, your staff were housekeepers who worked three shifts in college classrooms and student dorms.  In the city of Burlington, Vermont, they were very much an eclectic group, including many immigrants because Burlington is a refugee resettlement community. So, we had people from all different countries, backgrounds, races, and quite a few of whom really don’t didn’t speak English.

This adds complexity in a workforce. In promoting the development of your staff, it adds complexity to a job where one might be a department chair, and maybe you’re dealing with a lot of faculties and there’s some diversity. The issues are really quite different and really very unique. Plus, the number of people, hundreds of them. Now I know at your current institution, those profiles might be different, but as you emphasize, you have both union and non-union staff, and that just adds a complexity that I just want our audience to appreciate.

Leslye

Thank you.

Mercy

So, let’s just start with your early years.  Can you just tell us a little bit about where you grew up? Something about your personality and your family as your child, that’s something that you’ve often talked about and then your family upbringing.

Leslye

Sure. So, my parents were in the military in the Air Force, and so I come from a divorce household. My father was in the Air Force and my stepfather was in the Air Force. The first 13 years of my life were spent moving every two to three years to different locations across the United States and doing two tours with my parents in Tokyo, Japan. The tour happened during the height of the civil unrest in our country. I was raised during the period when segregation was still going on, but in the military, the military was not segregated. And so I’ve always had the exposure to different cultures and ethnicities and races in my formative years.  I had that exposure and that experience in those relationships. And that has impacted my skills and development as an adult in how I move in the world. My mother was really ahead of her time. She left my father during a time when women didn’t leave men. If you had a good husband, you didn’t leave because you wanted something different, especially if you had three children. But she was very independent and made the decision that that’s what she wanted to do.

Mercy

You were overseas until you were about 12, is that correct?

Leslye

Yeah, we came back to the United States when I was 13,

Mercy

With your mom. And, when you moved back from that international experience, you moved back to your family’s home in North Carolina. Can you tell us a little bit about that? About your mother, your mother’s family and what sort of experience was it like coming back into the United States at that time?

Leslye

Sure. So we went from the largest city in the world at that time,

Mercy

Which was Tokyo, correct?

Leslye

Yes. To a city that had one stoplight. So, you can imagine the cultural shock at that time.  I was able to do things like gymnastics and rigorous activities that were in the schools. It was just a different world. And so, coming back to North Carolina was a big letdown for all of us.  The schools weren’t where they should have been. In terms of my interaction at the time with my family, we stayed with my grandmother who had a farm for a short period. But what I will say is, and on throughout the years, when my parents were divorced, my family lived with my grandmother and all of my cousins, because for some reason, all of my mother’s siblings divorced and the women and had kids, and we all ended up at my grandmother’s at the same time.

So, you can imagine probably about 13 or 14 kids, but I remember it being a very positive period. I consider my cousins to be my brothers and sisters as well. My experiences haven’t been linear. I’ve had periods where I’ve been in very comfortable environments, and then I’ve had periods when I’ve been in environments that would be considered  poverty environments. So, I can remember a time when my mother, because she was so independent, was not going to go on welfare. We lived in the projects.  I’ve had many different experiences. I think being a child of the military really structured me to where I am very adaptable to any environment. I understand that the same characters in life are going to show up at every location and it’s just a matter of me figuring out who is who right. And it’s been true every time. 

Mercy

When you came back, you had that not uncommon experience of being an outsider and then at age 13.  That’s a particularly sensitive time, 13-year-olds are very sensitive to group dynamics and who fits in and who’s different. And we’ve talked about how learning to navigate that experience is what really was the beginning of your developing skills. That’s a theme you’ve had throughout your life, including your current work life today. When you finished high school, you were in North Carolina near your grandmother’s town, which was Dudley, a small town. From there you went to college to a Historically Black College that’s in Greensboro, North Carolina. What happened when you went off to college then?

Leslye

So, one of the things I do want to go back to that I have experienced throughout my life, especially when I came back from overseas, is  being bullied.  I was bullied in middle school.  I was bullied in high school, and I was bullied in college. And during those times, that kind of behavior wasn’t put in check. One of the reasons why I was bullied was that I was so different.  I didn’t assimilate. And I was very independent and I knew exactly who I was, very mature. And so my college experience was the first time since I left Japan that I was actually able to bond with other women. And there were, and still are about eight, very close friends who throughout the years, we still stay in contact with each other.

College was when I experienced none of it. I’d never been in an environment where it was all people that looked like me and they were socially viable in terms of the Greek associations, the culture I had just never been around before. And I enjoyed it so much that I didn’t stay. I was there for two years and I made the decision that I didn’t need to stay because I just wasn’t doing well, academically.  The reason I wasn’t doing well was because I wasn’t going to class. I was having such a good time. I had all either half A’s or half Fs. And talking to someone, I made the decision that I’m not going to do this.

I’m not going to fail. Because the fear of failure has always been there for me. I just think I need to move on. And so that kind of started my adult years. They really got off to a very unsettling start where I just didn’t have a really strong foundation when I left school. I kind of floundered a little bit.  I worked part-time, I went out of state and lived with my family. It was during those times that you really needed an education.  Just coming out of high school you weren’t going to be able to do a lot. During this time I ended up in New Jersey in a Playboy in Atlantic city. I was recruited to be a Bunny, but I was a tomboy. I wasn’t interested in that. So I became a valet driver and I really liked that. That was cool because you got to wear the really cool jogging outfits and the really cool sneakers and you got to drive everything. So we, all of us drivers, got to meet everybody that came into the Playboy. And we would drive their vehicles. And when I tell you in that garage, we would go from zero to a hundred miles an hour in a very short period of time. Okay. Don’t tell your Ferrari owners, please.

During that time, I learned how to drive everything. I had a situation where I got into a vehicle one day and I don’t know how the guy drove up there, but it didn’t have any brakes. And I didn’t know how to stop it. So I ran into something to stop it. That was my first experience with people who weren’t concerned that I might have gotten hurt. It was about the vehicle. And I chose not to use the union to support me. And I ended up being transferred out of that position into Housekeeping. That’s when I had my first exposure with Housekeeping. I became a housekeeper in those days. And housekeepers made a pretty good living and were part of the local 54 union.

Our salaries were decent and we received exceptional tips from the customers because they were winning.  So they would leave you chips or whatever. I made enough income to really support myself. I remember getting laid off after a couple of years and coming back to North Carolina. It was during that time that I started working Front Desk for a major hotel in the area and I got back in school. I transferred all my credits from A&T to the major four year school there and was doing very well and decided, okay, well I’m gonna apply for the Supervisor.

Mercy

Leslie, this is a really important juncture in your story because this is where your career really begins to develop and take off.  We need to take a break.  So we’re going to take a break and we’re gonna come back, leaving people with a little suspense about what happened as you started.  The story gets more, not less exciting in my eyes. This is Mercy Russell with The Remarkable Relationship Show. My guest today is Dr. Leslye Kornegay. We’re going to take a break and we’ll be back soon.

BREAK

Mercy

Good morning. This is Mercy Russell back with The Remarkable Relationships Show. My guest today is Dr. Leslye Kornegay. We are talking today about her journey personally and spiritually through her leadership career path. We were just talking to Leslye about her earlier life before and then about the first job that you had as you entered the world of Environmental Services. Can we just pick up where you were?

Leslye

Sure. So, I applied for the Front Desk Supervisor position for a major hotel in the area, the major hotel in the area in Raleigh, North Carolina. I was basically told by the general manager that I would not be considered for the position and was stated that I knew why.  I was flabbergasted. I didn’t know what he meant. And he said, “Well, you know, someone like you will never be a Front Desk Supervisor here.”  And that was my first experience with this racial discrimination. He actually steered me to the Housekeeping department.

Mercy

So just to be clear, he was saying that because of the visibility of the front desk person, they wouldn’t have a woman of color in that position.

Leslye

Exactly.

Mercy

So it was, it was your race primarily?

Leslye

Yes.

And now mind you, my roommate was white and she worked there. She actually ended up getting the job

Leslye

But anyways, I didn’t have any resentment.  I thought about it, and I said, well, that, that was the times. 

Mercy

What year was that? 

Leslye

1978

And so, I became the Assistant Director for the Housekeeping Department. No experience, mind you other than having been a Housekeeper. I did that for a couple of years.  I was still in school and I made the decision.  If I’m gonna do this, then I’m going to be the best at it. Right. I’m gonna take it as far as I can take it. And so, I went from an Assistant Director within five years to an Executive for at least three major hotels in the area which I helped to open. I did all the work with the General Manager and did all the planning and stuff to open the hotel.

I was doing extremely well. I was doing so well that I decided to stop going to school.  And it was at the last position that the General Manager that had hired me was probably the epitome of what a leader should be. He ended up going back to California and they hired another person who I ended up going through a sexual harassment experience. And when that happened, I walked off the job. It didn’t dawn on me to go see SEO, and there were no diversity offices in the departments. Your options weren’t there. And it was his word against mine, and by walking off the job, it was the worst time to do it. We were in a recession. The fact that I walked off the job, I couldn’t use that job to apply for other jobs.

People wanted to know what have you been doing the last two years? So I was unemployed for a year without any unemployment. And when you talk about going from what I consider the top down to the rock bottom with nothing where you can’t pay your bills, and you don’t have nowhere to go.  I made the decision then, you’re talking about spirituality. This is one of those times where that came into play. I remember being in church, on New Year’s Eve and making the decision then, God, if you bring me out of this, then this won’t ever happen again. I never blame that on God, that’s not how my God works. And so I ended up getting, after a year, a position with another major hotel. I was connected with the General Manager, and he hired me just based on a conversation. And I was also hired six months later at another major school at Chapel Hill. And I worked both of those jobs for a year.  One was on the third shift and the other one was on the first shift.

I also made the decision to get back in school. From there, I’ve worked at the largest school system in the area for several years, working with principals and the head custodians who are probably some of the hardest workers in America because they take care of the whole school. It’s one person doing everything to go on to be hired as an administrator a little bit later on. Once I started with the school in Chapel Hill, I was actually working for the state of North Carolina. And every move I made from there was internal within the state of North Carolina.  And the last position that I had in North Carolina was for the major school in Raleigh and a major university as Deputy Director.  I started there as an administrator and was hired again by chance meeting the Assistant Director at a conference.  I was talking my way into a position with him.

Mercy

Part of what you’re talking about is the fact that once you made up your mind, you went along, tried things and went your own way. And then when that fell apart, eventually you made up your mind, you were going to find a way to make it work. And when it did, when you made up your mind, you did whatever it took. So you pursued contacts that you need. You didn’t just sit back and wait for people to recognize you, you approached people and you had a way of talking to them. So it would open a door and that they would help you.

Leslye

I felt like I’d already been at the bottom. The most you can do is reject me.

Leslye

I’m just saying, to this day, I don’t care who you are. I’m going to be personable and approachable. And I think that has helped serve me well.

Mercy

So, I’m thinking about our time and there’s so much more to talk about. Can you just briefly summarize what your career has been like since then, because you went on to complete a Bachelor’s degree?

Leslye

I completed the Bachelors and I realized once I had done that, that I was already at that level. I already had a career and I decided to go ahead and get the Masters completed.  I thought, why am I not moving like everybody else? I thought it was because I’m in a predominantly white institution and maybe it’s because I’m black. So I started looking outside of North Carolina because I figured in order for me to grow, I’m gonna have to go.

Mercy

Yeah, that’s your thing. I have to grow. I have to go.

Leslye

I started applying, and this is no exaggeration, I went on 25 to 30 out of state, fully paid, search interviews, some as a finalist. And I always got the same answer. You are great. You’re wonderful, blah, blah, blah. But you’re not quite what we’re looking for. You’re not the right fit. And that basically told me that they weren’t ready to hire a black person in leadership. Especially a black female. What I learned when I was hired in Massachusetts to a Facilities organization. It was a VP who took a chance on me. He was white. And I think the difference with Michael was that he was also gay. He understood what I wanted to do and the challenges that I might have been having to do it. He hired me and that began my trajectory into senior leadership,

Leslye

From there, to the University of Vermont as Director of Custodial Services. And I did not necessarily become a Director of Housekeeping. After completing my Masters, I got into a doctoral program with a nameless school that I let remain anonymous.

I fulfilled all of the doctoral requirements, but when it came time to get support, to do my research, that didn’t happen. And so I have always had to fund my education with the exception of when I went to my parents.I had accumulated a huge amount of debt sending myself to school. I made the decision to go to UVM purely on the fact that I could get a doctorate there and I wouldn’t have to pay for it.

Mercy

It’s part of the employee benefit  that you could be in a degree program with tuition covered by the university?

Leslye

Right. I hadn’t planned to be at UVM for more than five years, but I ended up being there for almost 10. I left the job in a very good situation. I also realized sometimes when it’s going well, that’s the time to go. In my journey, I lost the most important person in my life, my mother, to pancreatic cancer. And that started another soul searching spiritual journey for me.

When I lost my mother, I made the decision then that I probably needed to make my start making my journey back south. I just felt like I needed to be closer to my family. And so that’s where I am today.  I am not finished. I really didn’t start my career well until I was 38 years old. And, so I’ve done all of this since I was 38 years old, and I think I’ve covered most of it. Mercy, but there’s so much more.

It has not been the most positive experience. And one of the things that my mother told me a long time ago was that she really appreciated and respected me because I don’t give up in these organizations that are accused of a lot of things by people. I guess the right word is sabotaged because I was a person of color. I was a female and they didn’t want me there.

Mercy

I had the opportunity or the privilege of hearing a lot of the gory details of one of these instances when you were in Vermont. And, I think as you mentioned to me, when we were speaking in the last several weeks that you’re in a different institution and a different part of the country, different dynamics, but you said something I thought was really interesting and wise. You said these political challenges, once you’re in leadership, come with the job, that it wasn’t a matter of just getting it right or getting in the right institution or being the right leader.  These were going to be predictable dynamics.  I guess my thought is that then they would also perhaps be intensified and sometimes ignited by both by the fact that you are a black female.

So both being black and being female in leadership, in academic institutions for all the talk about diversity and openness, those characteristics are laid on just what I would call the normal challenges in leadership.  I’ve seen white females deal with and actually my white male father-in-law deals with similar dynamics. But I also have seen how the skills that you’ve developed, the maturity and the spiritual maturity that you’ve developed along the way. What was the quote you said to me the other day, “Just because you are the boss doesn’t mean you are anything.”

Leslye

Well that doesn’t mean that you have any authority. If you go into leadership to have power, then you’re in the wrong job.

Mercy

But really it’s the personal power that you’ve gained. The sort of stamina, the persistence that, as your mother said, you had that characteristic from a young age, and you may not have seen how it would serve you or how it would develop over time. But that is what has really helped you to adapt to all these different circumstances. 

We have to wrap up now, I’m looking at my clock,  I guess there’s more to the story of course, and I hope to have you back so we can really dive into it.  I hope to have a chance to talk about your travels through your spirituality, your church connections, spirituality, your COVID experience. I hope we get to talk about that again.

I am Mercy Russell with the Remarkable Relationships Show. My guest today was Dr. Leslye Kornegay. If you would like to contact Dr. Kornegay, you can reach her at Lkornega@me.com.  I want to thank you again, Leslye, for joining us today. I think we have a remarkable relationship. The way you’ve navigated and adapted to so many, different types of relationships, in your work life we haven’t even touched upon it. And I really thank you so much for joining me today and sharing your story of leadership with us.

If have any questions about this episode please reach out to me at mercy@leadershipwithmercy.com